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9/29/2002

I was on the phone with FBB today about my check that I sent them and it cleared my bank on 9/18 but they still have a "Hold" on the money so its not availble to me until I have my bank fax them saying the money has cleared. That is annoying enough, but not my point of posting. The Rep told read me a memo that says that several things DO NOT EARN points anymore, they include Savings Bond, postage stamps, treasury bonds (Didn't know you could buy them with a cc)and "etc." I asked if they had told their members and she said yes, I asked where since I did not know about the change and she said, in the card agreement it says that FBB has the right to limit points on certain transactions. I said thats true, but in past they allowed points on those items and out of fairness they should notify memebers of changes, but she insisted that the notice that they could limit the points was enough and that that notice was included with all new FBB cards for several years. Pretty underhanded thing to do, I believe to eliminate people like me who were forced by their change to try to find a way to charge more than normal in order to reach a higher tier faster. So, be warned! She also indicated that people buying savings bonds were cheating poor FBB. Somehow I don't feel sorry for them.

Please help! My daughter just graduated from college and has a full-time job but no credit history. She applied for a cah-back credit card and got turned down for "insufficient bankcard credit history" and "insuffucient credit file." Does anyone know a good "no annual fee" card that she can get without any credit history?

I've seen a few complaints about Fleet here. I saw the Fleet card a few days ago on another site and did some investigative research for myself. I found this from the Better Business Bureau website regarding Fleet Credit Card Services in Horsham, PA: "Complaints against this business concern advertising issues, contract disputes, credit or billing disputes, delivery issues, product quality, refund practices, repair issues, selling practices and service issues." Case closed. I have a question about *new* AmEx Cash Rebate Card rebate policy. Do "everyday purchases" rebate at 3% when accumulated "EVERYDAY PURCHASES" have exceeded $6000 or when accumulated TOTAL PURCHASES have exceeded $6000? If the latter, it is a great deal and I'm going to switch right away. If the former, I'll stick with my trustworthy old Discover card.

More bad news! 1. The Shell gas rebate card is ending! 2. I was wrong in my earlier post about Juniper card ending but giving everyone their full anniversary year to accumulate points for a higher tier. Yes, they are ending but no they will stop rewards sooner for everybody - no anniversary year. Each cardholder will get slightly different cutoff times but basically everyone will get cutoff in the next month or so.

FYI - I have a Citgo Preferred card which gives 1% back directly on the statement with the charge. I hadn't used it in a while because the Amazon card was great, but now it seems like the best, most convenient rebate. I recently charged $80 to it, and the statement immediately took off $0.80 leaving a balance owed of $79.20. I think I'll use that card now. I don't know if it's still offered or not...

Do you have any idea how the technology works that I-Dine and Uprosmise uses for registering your credit card? Thanks

Thanks for your site. Any thoughts on Fleet vs. First USA Cash$In Platinum card in terms of service and rebate levels.

Juniper 2% and 3% cash rewards cc will be ending! Existing 2% cardholders will stop earning rewards on their anniversary date; 3% cardholders will stop earning rewards on their next statement date per a letter that they will be receiving shortly.

The Shell Mastercard is no longer accepting applications, at least not until Q1 2003. Seems like some changes are coming.

Well, I'm the latest Fleet victim. My card expired in September. After seeing this site, I checked and no rebate amount was mentioned on my last two statements. When I called, the person told me it was starting over with my new card. After I told her I had several hundred dollars accrued on my last card, she said she would check. She came back on 5 minutes later and said that she attached a note to my account and it should be back next month. She could also not tell me my rebate amount as she said she could only see what was on my statement. Talk about dropping the ball!

In response to the question about the Amex Cash Rebate Card:

I applied for one once I got the news about FBB. Couldn't get details on the fine print without getting the card first.

Anyway, this is what it works out to (from memory.)

1.5% is what you can count on getting after the tiers which go fast (~$6k.) You can get 3% at Grocery Stores, Home Improvement Stores, and Gasoline Stores. However, this does not apply to the mega-stores which sell everything like Walmart, at those it is only the 1.5%. You are limited to ~$50,000 a year in spending. The 3% becomes 5% and the 1.5% becomes 2% if you carry a balance which can be done for the first six months when you get a zero percent introductory APR, Just be sure to pay off before the end. Since there is a limit, I suggest only using the card at the preferred places and getting 3% on your ~$50,000 limit each year and only going elsewhere to the extent you won't reach ~$50k. Credit limit is reasonable (not too conservative, nor liberal)

Note, many stores do not accept the Amex card due to their higher fee to the stores which presumably allows them to offer the higher rebate.

9/22/2002

I agree that these companies have the right to change their rebate rules, and I'm one of those who signed up for the FBB card just weeks before their change. What I don't like is the sleasy marketing tactics that they used and that led me to leave my earlier credit card company. About the same time Kroger Visa was mentioned in in Kiplinger Personal Finance Magazine's Credit Cards section (August issue) as offering a 2% rebate on store purchases and 1% on others, we received a letter about the "new and better ways" our needs will be met by the King Soopers Visa (King Soopers is part of Kroger and had also been offering the 2%/1% rebate). What's new and better is that they won't offer a variety of rewards for points anymore. Instead, they'll simply send King Soopers gift certificates when we reach a specified point level that's a little lower than before. That's OK, but in the middle of all the verbiage they quietly insert with no fanfare "you will earn a 1% rebate for every $1.00 you spend at King Soopers. What's more, you'll also earn a 1% rebate for every $2.00 you spend everywhere else." The net effect is that we must now spend 67% more to reap the same benefit. The final insult is their comment "The change in the rewards program will not affect your account number, PIN number, credit line or APR. It's just a better, more meaningful way to 'cash in' your rewards...so enjoy!" They've hidden the big bad news in the middle of a little good news. Just like so many other industries out there, you have to watch these guys every minute!

Question Do you know of a card that will send you payment for an airline ticket, rather than their schedual of so many allowed miles per zone.

Does anyone know the highest return rebate credit card out there? Thanks

Alaska's program is now run by B of A.

It appears that the Fleet 2% reward is gone as well, at least for new customers. I just received my new Fleet card and the cash dividend levels are now as follows: $0-$1999.00: 0.25%, $1999.01-$3999.001: 0.50%, $3999.01-$5999.00: 0.75%, greater than $5999.00: 1.00%. The only way to get a 2% rebate is to carry over an unpaid balance on your account and pay finance charges. They still have the $500 annual limit. This is no deal at all. I am going to cancel the new card.

FirstUSA no longer offers the ecard (5% cash back at select stores), but the person I spoke with said there have been no changes to the program for existing card holders. They took their getecard.com site down, so getting the list of participating merchants may be hard for some people. Below is the list I copied down a while back. I do not think it has changed, although some stores are no longer in business. Something for Everyone Amazon.com® Bluefly.com PaulFredrick.com Watchzone.com WorldWideSports.com Fine Foods and Drink BuyCoffee.com Dean-Deluca.com OmahaSteaks.com Wine.com 800Spirits.com Entertainment CDNOW.com CustomDisc.com Reel.com Flowers, Cards and Gifts Enchanted Moon FlowerClub.com FlowersUSA.com FTD.COM® GraceGourmet.com Send.com Computing MyPilot.com Outpost.com Home and Garden FurnitureFind.com For the Kids eToys.com GeniusBabies.com

I am looking for a replacement for my Farm Bureau Bank Visa. Has anyone checked out the AMEX Cash Rebate Card? It says up to 5% cash back. They pay different rebates based on "everyday spending" (up to 3%) and "non-everyday spending" (up to 1.5%). 2% and .5% bonus for carrying a balance. Does anyone have this? What falls into the "everyday" vs "non-everyday" spending categories? There are links to this card in the Subjective Analysis section, but the payout grid for AMEX does not have the "everyday spending" rebates, so it may not be the same card.

To the person asking about Fleet cardholders, my August Fleet statement also mentioned that it will be converting to the Cash Dividend Card. But my August statement does show the rebate earned, and it was 2% of my spending for the month (I guess I am already at the 2% tier).

The recent posting for the FLEET CASH DIVIDEND CARD was very interesting and hit home. My card was due to expire September, 2002. I started calling Fleet around the 8th of August and continued until after September and did not receive my newly updated card until September 8th. Each time I called I got a different answer from the most incomptent people I have ever heard from. In the mean time, the last 2 statements from Fleet showed NO rebate summary. I called when the first statement arrived and they stated it would be fixed the next month. When the next month's statement arrived with no summary, I called again and was placed on hold for over 20 minutes to which I finally hung up. I called back the next day and the woman asked, "Why are you calling back again, you just called yesterday!" referring to the rebate summary. After her smart remark, she stated that the rebate section would appear again in October. Who knows if this is the truth or not. In the meantime, I have stopped using my fleet card and used my other 1% visa and my discover cards. I am going to take the rebate money (if it is ever posted) and cancel my card immediately afterwards. No one deserves this kind of service when they are so many other choices for a credit card out there.

I, too, am facing some challenges with Fleet. While I don't know all the ins & outs of your particular situation, it sounds like Fleet dropped the ball. I don't know what's going on at Fleet, but at the end of this year, I'm moving to another card! They're too much trouble. Your mileage may vary, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to maintain your site. Informative personal opinions are very important in this world where everybody is selling something, so I appreciate your objectivity. I was wondering about your opinion on rebate cards that offer higher rebates with participating merchants. Do you sense that there is significant added value to the hassle of finding participating merchants? This would assume that you need what you are buying and merchant prices are comparable to non-participating merchants. I am specifically interested in the Stockback vs. Upromise vs. Babymint. Although some of these are educational savings, that works for me right now. Do you know of any others that might be better, notwithstanding all you have already discussed on your site?

Fleet is NOT a 2% Cashback card in you pay off your card every month! For new applicants to their "Dividend" card the tier is not the same as those who already hold the "Cashback" card. If you pay off your card every month, these are the tier increments: .25% on the 1st $1999 spent, .5% on the next $2000, 75% on the next $2000, and 1% on purchases over $5999. The tier cycle restarts each calendar year (not when you start using the card). Max Dividend of $500. The tier is different (going up to 2%) only if you hold a balance each month. This is the information I received yesterday in writing after newly applying for the card last week.

Very informative site. Yes, it depends on what you spend per year. Check nationalcity.com for pretty good cash builder Visa. 0-$2,000. .50% 2,001-40,000 l% 40,000+ 2% max $1,000.00 calendar year

Looks like its over with Farm Bureaucrats. In addition to reducing reward to 1% they will no longer count purchases of financial instruments (savings bonds) toward point balances as of 7/17/02.

I just got a new Fleet cash dividend card. They must have changed the rules because now the only way to get 2% is to carry over a balance. Up to 1% and then an extra 1% on the unpaid balance.

Regarding the 9/13 message about Fleet below - my experience has been identical to yours. Had the card for a few years, rebate amount was dropped from the August statement, card was expiring, got the new card on the last possible day, card name and appearance doesn't jive with their correspondence, etc. When I called, the rep said that even though the rebate doesn't show on my statement, she could see the amount on her screen, and it seemed accurate. So I'm assuming for now this is just another Fleet programming debacle, like the one that delayed the checks last year, and that the rebate program is still intact. Keep your fingers crossed...

9/13/2002

It seems to me that when you factor in the "matching" points program for participating merchants with the Discover card, making it 2% rebate, that it is the best deal. Am I wrong? Thanks for your reply.

With the demise of FBB, it's time to switch to Principal Rewards. By the way, if you read their fine print, Principal WILL credit the rebate as CASH toward your Principal purchases.

I just received notice that FBF was reducing their cash rebate from 2% to 1%. If you have points better bail out before Oct. 31.....

I seem to be the only one having this problem with Fleet, since no one has commented on my several postings of the past month. Please, someone, let me know whether I am alone. To state it (including update) briefly, my August statement did not show a rebate, either for the month or year-to-date, but there was a note at the bottom saying that it had changed from a "cash rebate reward card to a cash dividend card, only the name has changed." I called and they said that the change in name meant that there was a problem in handling the printing of the rebate, but it would show next month. I also said that my card expired the end of the month and they said that the new card would be mailed out in mid-month, in plenty of time for September 1. August 27 I called again and was told that somehow my card had not been mailed out, so they mailed me a new one that looked just like the old one, but with a new expiration date. I got my September bill today and no rebate/reward--I called and was told first that my card had been changed from a rebate card on August 14, to which I said "huh?" I was put on hold and then told that, no, my card had not been changed, but that they were having printing problems which would be fixed on October 16. I asked whether I was the only one this had happened to, and the rep said that there were 34,000, and he had handled about 7 calls (in which case why didn't he know what I was talking about?). I asked how he knew the problem would be fixed on a particular date, and he said programmers know when problems get fixed (I know better than that). He said rebates are continuing to accrue, but don't show on hs system, so that he won't give erroneous information. Folks, I think that Fleet has pulled something even worse than FBB--I think they cut out the rebate altogether, at least for some of us, but put a note onthe bottom of my August statement saying all was okay (and then not following up by providing rebate information). The cardholder agreement ! says that they can change the terms at any time, even retroactively, so there is no recourse, even though they made the statement that the card had not changed. Any comments, please?

I noticed that many chase card cash rebates like they chase mutual fund returns. It is OK to have your spent money working hard for you. However, it may reach a balancing point that it is no longer worthwhile. For example, many may be like me, hopped from GE rebates (when it is a pure 2% card) to GM/Subaru/Citi, and when the cars were purchased, to Fleet or FBB. Now we switched from FBB to Fleet. What is next? I know that Juniper offers the same deal as Fleet (almost). Do we hop onto Juniper when Fleet changes flag on us? When is it going to end with all the application processes and watching for small prints. I will not apply for new cards when Fleet changes their terms, I will just take GE's 1% card plus the 3% Subaru card for my car repair. It is a competitive business, eventually the cash rebates may just be 1% (or less). Enough is enough. There are more important things to me than spending time switching cards. How do the switches do to one's credit rating? There is no assurance that Juniper will not change their terms, either. Just my thoughts.

Hi Everyone, I am getting tired of hearing everyone whine and complain about Farm Buraeu Bank. Let's look at some facts: 1. They clearly stated that the reward sturcture can be changed at any time. Here they are giving us 2 months notice, although I have not received any letters from them yet. So they are clearly delivering more than the minimum. I even wrote in a post in July that I was getting near $35,000 and I hope they don't change the rules prior to me reaching the magic number. No one even commented on the post at the time. 2. A "bait and switch" refers to drawing you into a store with an ad and using high pressure sale tactics to get you to buy something else. No one at FBB has contacted me or pressured me to buy purchase something else. We can either use the card or not use it. No pressure from FBB. 3. You can write all the letters you want, but they haven't done anything wrong. There will certainly be no legal action from this. Even if there was a class action suit, we would probably get almost nothing in return. 4. FBB offers additional perks if we use their products (i.e. CDs, mortgages, etc.) Where I am from, this is called smart marketing. Remember, companies are expected to make money. They are not here to give us things for free. Companies generally make less or no money with smart consumers. But they are not required to stand around and lose money to give us freebies. So they are now providing an extra incentive if we use some of there other products that I would assume are profitable. You all should stop looking for ways to turn their products to get your quick 2% rebate. This is in reference to the person who thought you could get a 3 month cd, cash it, and pocket the 2%. Or the person who hoped to get the full 2% in a cd and then cash it with no money from him. How does FBB make money on these types of transactions. 5. Apparently people found a way to buy savings bonds, cash them, and pocket the 2% rebate. This would be a loophole that FBB could not deal with and made the reward structure unprofitable. These people congratulated themselves on finding a way to make money off the situation. I look at it that they took a really good product and ruined it for everyone else so they could make some quick money. Obviously, FBB is not going to let people make money at their expense. If the volumes are high enough, their usage and costs cound a lot more to FBB that how us regular consumers do. So, basically, the savings bond churners did just take their money from FBB, they ultimately took it from all of the other consumers who did not do this. 6. It is time to move on. I just checked out the Fleet Cash Dividend card. It looks promising. Tiers are $0-$2000: 0.25%, $2000-$4000: 0.50%, $4000-$6000: 0.75%, $6000-8000: 1.00%, $8000-$30500: 2.00%. Max rebate is $500 which equates to 1.64%. However, rebates are based on the calendar year, so if this is the way to go, you want to get set up for January 2003. Also, if you do not charge $30500 a year, the effective rebate will be less. Does anyone think there are better deals out there?

STOP WHINING! FBB has every right to change the program. If they are not making a profit (can't see how they could when they pay out more than they make on a credit card transaction) why should they continue the program. The best credit card deals are the ones never or rarely posted on this site, If I was to share everyone, they too many folks would get the card and the issuer would have to kill the deal. You cannot make money paying 2% on a credit card rebate PERIOD. They saw they were in the hole and took legal action to get out of the hole. Write your letter, post your gripes and keep pestering their phone girls who have no control over the program, I am going to my keep charging my cards and earning big rebates from issuers who have fair programs that pay off for them and me.

Just received notice from Farm Bureau Bank: Visa cash back will be reduced to 1% as of 10/3/02

With so many changes in the credit card cash rebate business, I believe that we are very close to the end of the sweet cash rebates (i.e., 2% cards). So grab them while you can, say Fleet cards or Juniper. I will not be surprised that Fleet may be taken over by other banks soon and will swiftly end its 2% offer. My conclusion: be happy with the cash we have earned so far and be content with the solid 1% cash card in the future. For me, I just bought two new cars (GM Prizm/Subaru) so car rebate cards will not be useful for me for another 10-12 years. I use Shell (5% on gasoline) still. I seldom go on personal trips so that rules the airline mileage cards out. All those perk cards (discount, etc.) are useless to me. It is a sad ending for rebate cards but good things always come to an end I am afraid. Be prepared.

For those who may have found themselves with the same problem I had with Farm Bureau, this may be of interest. With the Oct deadline for the potential 2% cash back, and with my montly spending limit set at a fixed amount, it appeared that I would just miss spending 35K to get the full 2% cash back. My montly spending limit on my card was not quite enough to hit the max before the deadline. So I prepaid a set amount on my credit card, essentially increasing the amount I could spend. So I calculated the additional amount that I would need to spend before the deadline and overpaid my credit card bill by that amount. Then I was able to spend this additional amount, above and beyond the preset monthly spending limit, and should make the 35K deadline in time.

I love the website, and now it has probably saved me a bucket of cash, too. A few years ago I was using the US West 2% cashback card and was merrily charging along when I discovered, at my anniversary date, that US West had changed their program several months before and was now only paying 1%. They had sent out a change notice, but it was wrapped in fine print, and accompanied a flyer that bragged along the lines of "changes for the better." After I recalculated my rebate, I figured that I would have made about $250 more in cashback if I had read the fine print and immediately switched to Fleet.

Well, this time I heard about the FBB changes through the Grapevine and was able to immediately stop making purchases on FBB and switch (back to Fleet). Thanks for saving me $$$$!

Re: FBB. Thanks to the person who posted the address of the Office of Thrift Supervision. I was writing up my complaint to them when I figured why not write to my congressman and senator. It couldn't hurt. In this day and age of Enron, MCI and Global Crossing, we may get some federal intervention which could get the company to honor their original agreement. At least honor it for the small minority of us that never carry a balance and pay in full. I'm sure that number is not that great. You never know.

9/11/2002

I find your web site is very informative. I have an update on the Farm Bureau Visa Card. They have decided to give only 1% cash back after October 31, 2002. The existing customers have until then to redeem points at the old rate which tops out at 35000 points for $700 (2%). The change has been notified by a letter sent by Robert L. Goeller, Vice President of Credit Card Services at Farm Bureau Bank dated September 3, 2002. I see this as an old fashion bait and switch marking as this card has only been in existence for 2 years. The points don't expire until 4 years but if the redemption table changes before then, most existing customers didn't really have a chance to claim 2% anyway expecially with the typical credit limit. It's a huge disappointment since Robert Goeller said when introducing this card 2 years ago the following: "We believe that this is one of the most competitive cash back programs available in the market today. Unlike other credit card programs that provide cash back in the form of certificates or discounts on merchandise purchased through their program, the Farm Bureau Bank Reward Card provides up to 2% cash back on purchases without any of the gimmicks." The current policy will allow "doubling" the point value to 2% by redemption for their own deposit or loan products. This is exactly the type of gimmick that he was referring to yet here he is making that type of change. In this letter, it even says, "Changes...For the Better". Better for whom? It's ok for the smaller guys who would have only got 1% anyway but for the guys that wanted to get 2%, they got a short notice that pretty much says you won't get 2% and all those old points you got also are only worth 1% unless you can collect 35000 points by 10/31/02. If not, everything is worth 1%. Does he think customers are stupid? You were right about questioning the card from the day it was written up on your web site. It was too good to sustain, because the merchant fees are sometimes lower than 2%--a total loss for the bank. But I still think it is unfair to sucker in customer with their 2% campaign and not honor it long enough for existing customers point expiration date. That's a bait and switch. The terms of the agreement does allow Farm Bureau to make any changes--a common way in the rewards card universe. However, to proudly promote a product as "no gimmick 2% cashback" then turn around and reject it after only 2 years retroactively seems very unfair to the existing customers and they certainly deserve to get their reputation hurt by that action. Farm Bureau Bank undoubtly benefited by getting tons of new customers as a result of the 2% reward program.

To all others who feel burned by the Farm Bureau Bank "bait & switch" please complain to:
Office of Thrift Supervision Attn:
Consumer Affairs
P.O. Box 619027
Dallas Forth Worth, TX 75261-9027
(972) 277-9564
They need a written signed complaint to take action. P.S. This is the Dallas office which has direct jurisdiction over the bank.

There is a post below about the new FBB policy which needs correcting. The poster has misunderstood how FBB intends to let you redeem for a supposed 2% on FBB banking products -- because FBB has such a unique way of explaining things. If you want to buy a $1,000 cd and have 10,000 points, you still need to come up with the full $1,000. The EXAMPLE they have provided us indicates that if you buy a 2-year (rather long term in this market) cd for $20,000 (rather steep, huh) at the end of the 2 years your bonus 1/2% would earn an extra $200 in interest. (By the way, read the fine print of FBB's letterto current card holders and you'll see that there is no set schedule or policy on the extra "UP TO" 1% -- for all we know yoou'd only get an extra 1/8% on a 2-year $1,000 cd or a 12-month $20,000 one. You'll have to nail them done at the time on the exact product you're going to purchase. 2 interesting points: 1) the example they provide to us would only give an extra 1/2% SIMPLE interest (per year), not an extra .5 on the compounded rate -- much less a full 1% on the cd rate compounded over the 2 years; 2) don't forget that in that example they give you the $200 will ABSOLUTELY be reported to the IRS as taxable interest income! (oh how grateful I am for this improved benefit.) Bottom line, particularly when one considers that the FBB rates are not great to begin with, don't even bother trying to realize the initial potential of your FBB card: Either accept it as a 1% POINTS rebate card with the risk you'll lose more points in the future, or switch to anothter cash card. Problem is I understand Juniper has followed suit and droped its 2% tiered card, leaving the next best Visa/MC being the Principal Bank Visa which will only deposit the rebate into your Principal checking or savings account (or cd, etc.) with minimum balance requirements etc. What do we do? Citgo 1% Visa with $40 mo rebate max??

To those who are actually thinking of keeping the FBB card. WAKE UP! It is now a card that gives you, at best, 1% back, and that is only after you charge $10,000. Several cards, such as the Amoco and Exxon cards, as well as the Citibank Upromise card, give you 1% back each month. Each of these are better than the new FBB card, and you will not have to worry about them changing the program again like FBB surely will.

I am also disappointed about the FBB's rewards change. Someone posted here a few weeks ago that the 2% redemption still works if you use the points to buy FBB products - and this includes CDs. Is this true? Can just accummulate points, buy a 3 month CD and then cash it in right away for the 2% in cash?

9/10/2002

The comments about the FBB notice and its unique, toally upbeat tone are certainly on target. An insult to any thinking person (and the average FBB card user, dare I say, is probably a thinking person.) Here's the best that was hidden in the notice, however -- a little phrase was added to the card agreement indicating that while, as before, they reserve the right to chane the rebate structure/redeemtion table "at any time" -- the next time they do it all then-accumulated points will be paid only at the new rate (no opportunity, even brief, to redeem under the 1% cap now avaialable). Until I find a better Visa/MC deal (and they seem to be drying up fast), looks like we need to redeem the FBB points often so as to avoid losing out when the next reduction comes. It would have to be a reduction, by the way. Whoever wrote the new language wasn't smart enough to say all then-unredeemed points would beredeemed at any new LOWER rate -- so if it got pushed back up they'd lose too much money on then-outstanding points.

This might sound crazy, but consider me a credit card rookie. I've got an AMEX Rewards card that gives me points toward hotel rooms (great choice for my family as we do a lot of travelling). We also pay off the balance each month. I've searched all over the Internet for a Bill Pay Service that may allow you to pay your bills via credit card. They exist, but your creditors must accept credit card payments in order to use a credit card. The creditors I want to pay with my card (mortgage and car payments) don't accept credit cards or I'd pay them directly. Obviously, the bill pay sites don't want to contribute the kickback to the Credit Card companies for running a charge on the card. I thought maybe I'd find at least one company that would charge a fee, but still make a withdrawal on your card to pay your bills--no such luck. Forget cash advances as those along with balance transfers don't contribute to your point accrual. I'd love to get my mortgage and car payments charged to my credit card each month so that I could pay them off and accrue the points. Two or three thousand points each month really add up. Know of any way to do this (legally)? I'd even be willing to look at another mortgage company that accepts credit card payments, but those seem to be rare as well.

Great site; you seem to think like I do (cash back is the goal!) After visiting this site a year ago I swithched to the FB VISA & was quite pleased. However, they have now changed the policy and pay a only fixed 1% in cash. I suppose you have to work at it to keep these bargain cards...

What a great site! for cash back i just got the bank one platinum cash$in (administered by first usa) how does this bank one compare with amex cash card and farm bureau? I couldn't find a chart on your site. Thanks!!

few notes on your website: - Great Job!! Just what I was looking for! - You mention the Farm Bureau Bank card. Well, I got a notice in the mail this weekend that they're changing the program! Max 1%, unless you apply the "points" to a Farm Bureau product. No details on what you REALLY have to do to make it 2%, so in my opinion, it's 1%. Still no cap. (BTW, this change in policy HAS made their web site - I checked...) I was suspicious when I signed up (only a few months ago). You were right to be suspicious (as you state on the Analysis page)! My advice is to GET A CARD THAT ACCRUES DOLLARS, NOT POINTS!!! Their change in policy has caused me to go searching once again... I plan on telling them so, once I've found the replacement! - A slight flaw in your analysis of the "top two" cards. You should note that the total rebate is 1.6%(+) on the Fleet card, if you stop spending after you've reached the limit ($30,500). If you spend the same $30,500 on the AmEx card, the total rebate would be only 1.3% (or $500 back versus $402.50, or almost $100 - real money in my book!). So I'd suggest the Fleet card for the first $30,500; then switch to the AmEx card for anything over that. Max that rebate!! (I in fact do this with another card that I have: An old CitiBank card gives 2% from the first cent spent, but limited to $300 per year. I use it until I've spent the $15k, then switch. The Citibank card is no longer offered, at least at 2%. I'm not sure why they still give me the 2%, except that if they didn't, I wouldn't use it at all ! I'm waiting [more like hoping] for the day that they realize that I use the card heavilly from January thru about March or April, then stop all of a sudden, until the following January. When they call me about this, and I tell them it's the rebate cap, they'll remove it [but I aint holdin' my breath!!!]!) Thanks for the good work on the site!

Given the FBB's abrupt change from the 2% deal to the (up to) 1% deal, Juniper card was mentioned as a 2% card in addition to Fleet card at fatwallet.com. Does Anyone have experience on this card? I knowthat it has similar tiers as Fleet (a bit better actually). Thanks!

9/2/2002

Note recent changes to Farm Bureau cash-back program - they are now capping rebate at 1%. (This after I joined them only 4 months ago!)

Fleet rebate structure is at this site: $0-$1999 (0.25%), $1999.01-$3999 (0.5%), $3999.01-$5999 (0.75%), $5999.01-$7999 (1%), $7999.01-$30500 (2%). I got two fleet cards (mine and wife's) working for me to accumulate $1000 a year. The only thing to watch out for is that they have terrible customer service, each interpreting rules differently. My card got frozen without notice because I am "close" to the maximum. Several reprentatives I talked with can be classified as senseless and non-human. I think that they recruit only robots to work there to discourage one to call with problems--- they want your money but not your grief. Still, it is one of the best ($$) cards I have.

I have been using the Conoco Mastercard. It pays 1% on everything and 3% on purchases at Conoco. The nice thing about this card is that they credit the rebate right on your bill (with a one month delay), so you don't have to wait until the end of the year for your check. I use this card for just about everything, and usually buy Conoco gas anyway, and I get anywhere from $10-60 off my bill every month. So far, it's the best deal I've found.

You can't just take the money you earn from your Farm Bureau Bank card and apply it directly to a CD. You still have to meet the minimum balance for the CD. For instance: You finally earn your 10,000 points. You now have the choice to trade them in for either $100 cash, or $200 in a CD. But the minimum balance in the CD is $1000 (now, anyway--they can raise it at any time). So you have to put up an additional $800 for three months in order to get your money. You do earn interest on that money though (though that could change at any time also!). But it is an additional capital cost and it ties you more tightly to FBB. Just something to think about.

To the guy who says FB treats the cardholder like an idiot: I tend to agree, the notice is ridiculously worded. I certainly took advantage of the old system--but remember, a whole bunch of these cardholders ARE idiots. They complain when someone decides there's no more reason to leave bags of money lying all over the ground for them to pick up.

Oh please! Quit complaining about Farm Bureau! The card is still a good deal. I know they didn't follow through with allowing you three full years to redeem at 2%, but this deal was really too good to be true. Just be glad you got the 2% while you could. It was obviously a way to get people turned on to the card and they couldn't possibly keep this up. If there's a card that gives more than 1% (AE did, do they still?) then just tell us and we'll all jump on it until they stop (and they will). Stop the whining.

Everyone stop whinning. No company can give 2% out when they earn less than that on their discount fees. FBB had to change their program because they were not making any money. If you think they should just keep giving out 2% for everyone to buy savings bonds, then I want to buy stuff from you below costs. As for the fella who thought removing the cap on FBB was no big deal. Guess again, I don't play baseball but I do charge close to $500,000 a year. I love cards with no caps.

Kudos to those who see the glass half full on FBB's conversion. As people have pointed out here for some time, this was time-delimited. I'm affected by it, since I took my Fleet to the annual max before beginning to run up credits and am not very far. As has also been expressed a few months ago, the AMEX card still has 1.5% open-ended once you get past the various thresholds.

My Fleet card expired on August 31 and the new one still has not arrived as of today, 9/2. The lady I spoke with last week said they would expedite a new card to me as there must have been a glitch in the system--the renewal cards were supposedly ordered 8/14 but somehow mine did not go out. She claims that when the new card arrives it will have the same terms as the old, just a different and improved name--sounds scary to me. Given the problems with Fleet and Farm Bureau, looks like the GM 5% rebate card looks better and better for those who can stomach GM cars.

9/2/2002

Just got my FBB letter about the change from a 2% to a 1% card. I have no problem with the change other than the short notice. What DOES irritate me is that they treat the cardholder like an idiot. The title of the letter and materials is: "Changes...For the Better!" Like I'm supposed to read it & say "Great! Now I don't have to worry about how to spend that extra $350. Thanks FBB!" They also try to balance the 50% rebate cut with this line (including the exclamation point): Beginning Oct 1, 2002 we are removing the cap. That's right! My questions: Was the $60K/year spending cap a big issue for a large majority of cardholders? Are they happier now that they can spend $120K/year to get the same rebate? Is there a single cardholder out there who's 1.) intelligence wasn't insulted by the title of the letter AND 2.) spends $60K/year (MLB baseball players excluded)? Again, I don't care about them changing the plan. That's their choice just like its mine to cancel the card. Just don't p*ss on my head and tell me its raining.

the farm bureau card had changed its rewards program though it is possible to earn 2% you will only do so if you exchange it to pay for other products of thiers (see the web site) i thought it was a straight 2% card when i got it! now it seems no better than most others please feel free to correct me if im wrong

For whomever: I also am a recent FBB convert. I found their phone staff most professional and courtious. They arranged my auto pay via phone on my first call. The concept of maxing the card for bonds is amazing to me. No wonder they dumped the 2%. I am not a big spender, but found the rebate tiers acceptable. The credit limit they gave me was adequate. I also will stay with them till a much better program comes along. Bonds, good grief.

FBB Lies!!! http://www.farmbureaubank.com/aboutus/rewardcard.htm This reward program was begun in Sep 2000. They gave NO ONE the three years they promised to accumulate points. They promoted this as a full 2% without any "gimicks". Nothing in their press release about making changes whenever they feel like it. They really could care less how much you charge as long as you don't pay in Full each month and give them 13.99% interest!!! Once they had all the new cardholders they wanted, they changed the program to increase profits. They are trying hard to spin this change as one for the "better". Since they can still change this program whenever they want and there are many truly better cards available, I will do my business with a more reputable company!

I talked with FBB about the change of policy and they said it is 2% on any product including cd's!! So that means it is actually better, redeem less points at 2% in a 3 month cd get your cash in 3 months. No longer do you have to wait for the 35K.

I scanned through your grapevine page, and I am a little confused as to what the best cash rebate program is if you pay off your credit card each month. I would like a program that pays anything over 1% cash back on all purchases. Is the best deal the American Express card? Or the Farm Bureau card (which looks like it only pays 1% now)? Or something else?

found your website very helpful some time ago to help me choose a new cashback card when my local credit union cut its cashback rate to 0.5%. I ended up going with the Farm Bureau Bank Visa. Everything looked great until this week when I got a letter informing me that the card has been "improved". I thought I'd pass along what the new terms are: The card remains "no annual fee", but they tacked on several new and VERY expensive penalties to the user agreement if you don't send in a payment. If you don't pay the minimum payment on time (in other words, if you like me pay off the balance each month but maybe are late because of a long vacation, business trip, forgetfulness, etc.), then not only do you pay the finance charge, but you pay a big penalty. "The late fee will vary based on the new balance shown on the monthly statement that first reflected the payment that was made late as follows: If your balance is less than $150, the fee will be $15. For balances from $150 to $1,200, the fee will be $29, and for balances over $1,200, the fee will be $35." Since I always have a balance over $1200 (isn't the point of a cashback card to use it whenever you can?), and since I have sometimes been late, this will really cost me. There are "new reward options" and "no point accrual maximum". What this really means is that they are cutting the cashback effectively from 2% max to 1% max. In order to get a "2% cash value" back, you must redeem your points for Farm Bureau Bank products, such as buying down your fee on a mortgage application or buying up the interest rate on a CD investment. Both of these have very limited caps, however, so even if you did want to send a lot of money to Farm Bank just so you could get a greater "cash value" back on your Visa card, you wouldn't be able to convert very many points into "cash value". The only good news about this deal is that there is no longer any tiering of the point awards. You get a straight 1% cash back regardless of how much you spend, starting with a minimum of 10,000 points (for $100). Bottomline: unless you actually can use the 2% cash value awards buy purchasing Farm Bank products, then you should consider this a 1% card. Still no annual fee, and I also can say that I've found the bank to be very responsive on customer service (such as dealing with questionable charges on the card). Just be sure you pay your balance (or the minimum payment) on time to avoid those nasty penalties! One thing that really DOES tick me off about this whole thing is that it was basically bait and switch. I got the card on the premise that I'd earn 2%. I'm a heavy card user, but haven't been able to rack up the 35,000 points yet to qualify for the 2% level of reward. Users have until 10/31/02 to redeem their points under the old award system, so I probably will only end up getting around 1.5% for my purchases on this card. Bait 'n switch!

I ditched Fleet (can't stand their rigid rules and poor customer service) as soon as I got my FBB card last year. Too bad FBB's 2% run is over for whatever reason. Even if FBB switches to a flat 1% rebate program, it's still the best card for me since I travel overseas a lot and FBB (unless they have also changed the rules here) does NOT charge any foreign transaction fees beyond the 1% imposed by VISA. Citibank, BofA, and others tend to charge 2% (beyond the 1% charged by VISA/MC).

8/30/2002

Could someone post the new rebate structure for the fleet credit card? I cannot find it anywhere.

I am shopping for a new credit card and i thought i would get online and scout out my possibilities before signing on the dotted line. It seems the more reading i do, the more bogged down i am becoming. I was hoping perhaps you could advise me as to what the best card would be for me. here are a few pieces of info: 1. i am farily young and i would probably spend around 10K at the most i would guess 2. i am looking for either a cash back card or a airline card 3. i would really prefer not to pay an annual fee 4. i will pay the balance of the card every month any suggestions??????

I talked to a GM card rep. yesterday who told me the change regarding no use with the employee discount was a GM decision. She suggested complaint letters be sent to GM Card Po Box 33156 Detroit MI 48232. Maybe if they get letters from enough of us they will reconsider that change. I don't mind so much that they changed it but they shouldn't be allowed to cheat us out of what we already earned.

Still saving toward the 35K $700 rebate since I signed up with Farm Bureau last year. I have not yet received notification of the rebate change. Their automatic payment setup is great - they automatically post my full payment on the due date, and the withdrawal posts to my credit union savings account on a later date. What other card has an arrangement like that? They have been very good on phone support, including handling everything when the automatic payment did not post the first month.

Before FB, I used Fleet for a short time, but they were very stingy with their credit limit, and would not make the credit available for up to a week, even after an EFT payment that had cleared already. Otherwise, they do have fairly good web support for payments. I lost out on rebate since I only charged at the bottom of thier tier. My card was issued on the older rebate schedule, but don't know if that will still be honored, with the comming name change and card replacement. They keep sending cash advance checks with posting charges - why use them.

I also signed up for a Principal 1.25% rebate card on line, but they only sent one card, although I wanted another one for my wife. I have not used it yet. They have no provision for automatic nor online payments from another bank, unless the other bank initiates the payment. Regardless of what their web site states, their Cash Back Rewards Program Rules state that "If you do not select an option ... reward dollars will be applied to your Principal Bank Visa Card."

Also have Discover, but don't use that either. They recently sent cash advance checks with 0% rate until 1/03 and no posting charge.

I am thinking whether I should stick with FB, use one of these other cards, or get something else. I prefer cash rebate, best with higher rate, without tiers, and pays often. I like to use one card only, so Visa or MC, rather than Discover or Amex. Any suggestions?

FYI: The Bank of America 2% Gold Visa has a max of $150/yr and is tiered as follows: 1st $4000 at .5%, next $4000 at .75%, next $4000 at 1%, and next $3000 at 2%. Only $15,000 in purchases can earn reward cash (Effectively, 1% back maximum). Citgo and Citibank are much better 1% cards than that.

So what are the new tiers for FBB? At what spending level do you get the full 1% back? How does it work to buy a CD from FBB in order to get their idea of 2% back?

A bit of information on the 3% Chase Subaru card: There is a $50 fee for balance transfer even though it carries 0% until next may (still worthwhile if one does a large amount?). There is transaction fee of 3% for cash advance. The rebates applies to both purchase/lease of new Subaru.

Hi Everyone, I was reading the posts on fatwallet.com in regards to FBB. A lot of people are really upset about the change in the rewards payouts. I wanted to make some comments: 1. FBB always advertised a 2% rebate. Most cards calculate the maximum rebate based on their best tier and say "up to X%". If FBB did that on the old program, they offered up to a 3.25% rebate (rebate grows from $375 to $700 when you point tier goes from $25,000 to $35,000. The FBB card on the old structure is FAR superior to any other offer on the market. 2. A month or two ago, there was a short thread on the time value of money. I responed on the risks of reward cards and that they can change the reward structure at any time. I mentioned that GE did it 3 months into their rebate year when people were spending on the lowest tier. And NextCard stopped with no notice at all (although they were in bankruptcy). This is a risk with all rewards programs. 3. A lot of people at fat wallet were apparently maxing out their card to buy saving bonds, which they could cash out quickly and pocket the rebate. Obviously, if you find a way to "take" money from a company that they were not intending, the company is going to do something to stop it. 4. A lot of people are using the term "bait and switch", implying FBB intended this change all along. I have had my card for almost a year. When I applied, they said this program had been around already for 3 or 4 years without any changes. It looks like the sudden popularity of the card and people like the savings bond buyers are driving this card to change. 5. I called customer service. They confirmed the old structure ends on Oct. 31. The new structure is a flat 1% rebate (there was some talk of a tiered program). This is not a bad program, and any uncashed points are still worth something of value. I will probably continue to use FBB unless until a better offer comes along. Conclusion: It was a good program while it lasted. It looks like recently something changed so that it was no longer profitable for them so they had to change the terms.

I do not have a good feeling with the new Fleet cards (they are changing to cash dividend cards for all accounts). There must be a reason. My guess: a gradual way to chicken out of their 1.5% rebates. We shall wait and see...I just got my Chase Subaru card, that I will use toward my Subaru repairs. Wtach out for their 3% transaction fee as well as balance transfer fee even though it is 0% for 9 months...

8/26/2002

Fleet Visa Card: Watch out, this is becoming a real Bait and Switch operation! SOME Fleet phone reps are still quoting the terms of the OLD, better program ("Cash Reward"). Two reps on different calls gave the better terms (e.g. 2% above 7,999). I specifically asked "do I need to carry balance to get the 2%" and they said NO. But when my card arrived, it was the "Cash Dividend" and the inferior terms structure! I have complained with supervisors that this was not what was quoted, but since the applications are all paperless now, I have little recourse. They keep asking for an invitation letter or something with the terms, which leads me to wonder if they still offer ths program to new customers (although they deny it). Note that Fleet does NOT mail paper applications explaining the rebate tier. Also, they do not give ANY tier info up front on their web site, as they used to!

Does the fleet dividend card apply its dividend schedule on a calender year basis or on an "anniversary date" basis. Since you have to run up at least $6000 before you get to the 1% level, I'm wondering whether I should wait on them until the first of the year.

Regarding FFB, I for one am very satisfied with them. We have maxed out the card every billing cycle, already redeemed one 35K redemption and are currently having 18K points, plan to reach 35K, get the redemption before Oct and then close the card. Ofcourse, we will have to search for another one like it ;-) Nice site, thanks for the info.

For those of us with the old Fleet cash rebates cards (up to 2% without carrying a balance), should we start using them again now that FBB is not longer 2%? I started using my FBB card in place of my Fleet cash rebates card because it was a better deal. With FBB out of the best deals picture, it looks like the old Fleet cash rebates deal is now best (for those of us who just make it to the $500 cap in a year).

So now that Farm Bureau has apparently scaled back to a maximum 1% cashback, what is the best return value now for card users who spend more than $30K per year and pay off in full every month? Is it back to Fleet again? I haven't kept track much since I started on Farm Bureau.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=104876 FBB SUKS: Stay MAD Get EVEN thread. No one forced FBB to promise 2% cash back, but it is NOT unreasonable to expect financial institutions to live up to their agreements. Try telling FBB you're only going to pay half the interest on your mortgage.

Yes, you are right. You pay interest on the average daily balance over the past 30 days. So carrying a balance of only 1cent into the next month will not work. The only way I can think of to work around this is to make a large purchase and then immediately send a check in for that amount. Then you only carry a large balance for a few days, rather than 30 or more days. But even a few days of interest can quickly eat into the extra 2% offered by Amex.

Also, I believe the AMEX requres you to constantly carry a balance. So if you accidently paid off your entire balance, you would forfeit the extra 2% for the year. However, you may want to check into this to make sure.

8/25/2002

AT&T Universal Card is offering a great offer of 0% on all balance transfers until August 2003 and 9.74% APR on purchases. https://www.accountonline.com/AC/ Heck of a good deal. I just transferred balances from two cards and will save $400 on finance charges in a year and will be able to pay them off at face value. The cardholder site is very nice and allows you to transfer balances easily.

For the fella who blammed the CEO FB for cutting the 2% rebate, get real. The processing fee on most VISA/MC is less than 2%. The banks get a portion of that. If they want to pay the light bill, the rent and all the folks that answer the phone they must take it out of that (as well as interest and fees) then pay a 2% rebate. So you expect them to take a loss on every purchase you make so you can get 2%. Heck I want to shop where you work. You can sell me your products at below your cost and try to make it up on someone else. Sounds really fair! The 2% was a deal to build their account portfolio and now that they have the accounts they want, they are cutting back the marketing promotion to get their business model profitable. Its not rocket science. Here is a hint, if you see a rebate program that is too good to be true, it will go away. Enjoy what ever benefit you can while being a card holder in good standing. For the fella who is bothering the card reps about an income card being taxable, call your account. Even if they knew, I would not be asking a phone rep how to file my taxes. The answer is no it is NOT income. Rebates from credit cards are (as of today) considered refunds of the purchase price. It is the same as buying $200 of stuff at target and returning a $5 item. It is the same as going to Best Buy and getting a price match refund when you find something selling for less than what you bought it for. A general hint, if you find another 2% rebate card and see everyone talking about it on web sites, then it will go away pretty quick.

I have not been keeping up with the Grapevine ... but .... have you all heard about Juniper's cashback program for its Mastercard? It goes up to 2% as follows: (I think): first $1000 - .25%, 1000-2000 - .50%, 2001-10,000: 1.0%, everything over $10,000 - 2.0%. The drawback is that it is capped at $500 per year. Still, it's better than my old scheme of using two GE cards (each capped at $10,000 in spending, for a total cashback of $280 from both cards), and Private Issue for the rest of my charges. Juniper is apparently not advertising this deal. So call them and speak to a representative about it.

Just received a letter from the GM Card. The letter said that if you use after August 1, 2003 any employee discount program you can't also use your rewards. I have been using the GM Card whenever I could for the last 4 years and have built up a reward balance of over $1300 and hate the idea of loosing this money when I could of been using another card instead. My problem is the Employee discount would most likely be a greater value than the $1300 I have in rewards. Family members or I don't plan on making a GM purchace within the next year. If I just leave it sit until next August GM will cut my rewards back to 20% of the $1300 or 1% of the amount I charged. I guess I just need some advice as to the best way to handle this, should I just let it sit and watch it fall to 1% or are there any 3rd parties who would see some value in the $1300 balance?

8/24/2002

talked to FBB today and they said they are mailing everyone something about the change to 1% and that the change is effective already. I hope he is wrong because I was planning to add up my points until November.

TO all those who keep mentioning paying the balance minus 1 penny to get the extra rebate, please read carefully: They charge you interest on your average daily balance if you do not pay in full!!! For example, say on the first day of the billing cycle, you buy a big screen for $2000. You make no other transaction, then on the last day of your billing cycle, you pay $1999.99. They do NOT charge you interest on $0.01, they charge you interest on $1999.999! That means you get jacked for $25-$35 depending on your interest rate. If you do not believe this, try it out. This more than outweighs the extra 0.5% to 1.0% rebate you might earn.

Fleet just changed the name of their cash rebate card to cash dividend card. But they say the terms and conditions remain the same. However, this makes the rebate sound like income, which would have to be reported to the IRS. I called and talked to three people and they could not produce an answer. All they could do is send me a fresh copy of the rules in the mail, which I haven't received yet. Any ideas on if this rebate is now reportable income?

Hey all-- a fun site. I just re-organized my credit cards to finally get something back which involved cancelling my KeyBank Visa (issued by Citibank) and my MBNA MasterCard. I now carry-- 1. AMEX Blue - no fee, 9.99% fixed, membership rewards for all purchases 2. AMEX for Students - yes $55 annual fee and $40 more for membership rewards, but I needed to separate my expenses between school and personal and I can keep both earning the same points. Besides, I get lotsa perks w/AMEX including SUPERGOOD Continental Airlines passes. 3. Citibank Sony Card - I converted my regular Platinum Student card to this after I got the AMEX cards because the new airline program with AMEX is about 10 times better than the Citibank's American Airlines program w/ the Platinum Student card. I use this everywhere that doesn't take AMEX, like my school. Every tuition payment is thousands of more points for me : ) One other thing I might note, if you travel interationally, don't use a Citibank card. There exchange rates are terrible. MBNA gives much better rates as does AMEX. Cheers!

About the Farm Bureau Visa. Just applied, and urged dad and friend to apply. I got my cards in mail with no info about the Reward aspect. So I called and asked how the 2% rebate worked and why I received no info about it. Their response was to outline their "wonderful" 1% rebate program. In addition to this, "you can also gain 1/2 or 1/4 percentage points in interest on our other products like CDs etc." I pressed further. What about the 2% card I read about on the website. HELLOOO?? "Oh thaaaat," as if he didn't understand my question the first time I asked it, and was barely remembering that Farm Bureua just a day earlier had a 2% card. "Well we aren't offering that rebate anymore for new cardholders and as a matter of fact, letters are going out very soon to existing cardholders about the discontinuation of the 2% rebate in October of this year." I thanked the person for his time. Cut up my cards. called my dad and friend and told them not to bother. Another 2%er bites the dust. Another CEO thinking he has to have a bonus he neither deserves nor needs. I guess I'll stay with Fleet as long as they keep the 2%. Have a good day.

Love your site. I am not sure if you are aware buy Farm Bureau Bank just changed their terms to only a 1% cash back card. There is a discussion going on at http://www.fatwallet.com in the finance discusion board there about which card is best to replace it. I told the board about your site so expect some hits. I would love for you to join the discussion there and use some of the information gleaned from there to keep your site up to date. Thanks

Your information regarding Discover Private Issue is not correct. There is no annual fee of $18 and also they do not give 2% bonus on all purchases. I called and spoke with them today and verified this. Your comments please!

Farm Bureau's website now talks about a 1% reward card (2% if used on certain Farm Bureau products). Someone posted that the rebate would decrease to 1% in November, but it has already happened. I don't know how it affects existing cardholders.

I also talked with Farm Bureau yesterday and confirmed they are changing the cash rebate from a possible 2% to 1%. I was told they are in the process of mailing information out to cardholders and it could be effective as early as next month.

I just scanned your site today and found it very interesting. Like you, I am one who pays off the balance in full every month and I get valuable rebates. Personally, I like the Marriott Visa card from FirstUSA. We spend a lot (averages $50,000) on the credit card annually. I calculate the value of the Marriott hotel points to be around 1%. There is no cap on points. Annual fee is $35. Sounds like some of your cards would be better (cash is always better), especially if I could get 1.5% to 2% without a cap. We travel a bunch, so using the Marriott points is never a problem. However, I am not willing to change cards every six months and carry a dozen cards around in my wallet. Saving $40 a year isn't worth such hassles to me. What do you folks think of the Marriott program? And do you have any better suggestions for my situation?

Just so you know. Bank of America has a cash back card. I've never seen it advertised on their website but it is listed on bankrate.com. The phone # they give is 1.800.678.2632. I've been using this card for over 2 years and have been very happy with their service.

Upon receiving this message this morning, I wrote Farm Bureau Bank and received the following response:

"The Rewards Card structure has been modified as you may have seen on our website and you can still earned up to 2%. The new rules for Up To 2%, affect both new and existing Rewards Card customers. Since you are an existing Rewards Card holder you can take advantage of the previous structure until 10/31/02. The change will be effective for current card holders on 11/1/02."

Indeed, if you go to their website: <http://www.farmbureaubank.com/bankserv/rewardcard.htm> it shows the new reward structure, which is basically only 1% cash back on purchases. The 2% reward can only be gotten by using points toward a Farm Bureau Bank product, such as CD's, vehicle loans, balance transfers, and mortgage loan fees.

Your earlier correspondent who informed us all that Farm Bureau is doing away with its 2% rebate plan is absolutely correct. BUT BEWARE: Points will continue to accrue through the last day of your billing cycle IN OCTOBER, and all points must be cashed out by OCTOBER 31. (After that date, the most you will be able to redeem will be 1%.) Example: if your billing cycle ends on October 9 (for example), ONLY POINTS EARNED THROUGH OCTOBER 9 WILL COUNT TOWARDS A 2% REBATE. And even then, don't forget to call in by October 31, or the 2% rebate will no longer be an option! Farm Bureau is certain to lose customers over this change. The fools are replacing the 2% program with a 1% program but only AFTER $10,000 have been spent. (Who in his right mind would use a piss-ant Farm Bureau Visa to get 1% back AFTER spending $10,000 when AT&T, Citibank, First USA, Shell M/C, and others redeem 1% each month, IMMEDIATELY?!?)

You don't seem to mention the Principal reward card at all. The platinum card gives 1.25% cash back (well into a Principal checking account that you have to put $100 into but also get a $50 bonus). This seems to beat a lot of 1% back cards and also does not have any tiers.

I called Fleet today, as my card expires the end of the month and I have not gotten a new one. The lady said that the new card had not been mailed yet, probably because they had to print up the letters for the new terms that go with the cards, since I had a card that was paying a rebate (she did not call it a rebate, but I forgot the word). I said that my August statement said there were no changes in the terms, and she replied she didn't know what they were, but there probably were some. I dug out my original credit card agreement, and Fleet has the right to change the terms on rebates, even retroactively, after they have been earned.

Thanks for your great service. Please note that your comments on The Farm Bureau Bank cash-rewards card are incorrect; the card offers 1% cash-back and only 2% if you use the rewards toward purchasing a bank product (e.g. a CD). Best regards.

re: the Farm Bureau Rewards card -- it is official, they are changing the terms so it will be pretty much a falt 1% card. Well, even worse than a flat 1%, because it retains the weakness of the old structure, you can only "redeem" the points at fixed thresholds (15,000, 25,000), until if and when you make the next threshold your accumulated points are worthless. What's worse, this change is applicable RETROACTIVELY to all the points you have now -- the only way to get the old deal on your current points is to redeem them by 10/31, and you only accumulate points under the old structure until your bill cycle closes in 10/02. IMO these changes make the Farm Burau Bank card pretty worthless (not to mention making FBB themselves look guilty of Bait-and-Switch), the card is no longer worth considering. Personally I am just going to keep going to the next threshold in the new structure, cash in my points, and then go back to using my Fleet Home (with which I would have about $150 more in rebates had I stayed with it and never heard the name Farm Bureau Bank ...).

Regarding Photo Credit Cards: Citibank and Bank of America offer photos on their credit cards. Bank of America has more bank branches, which makes it easier to get a card with a photo.

Another bad news, now with FBB, is it true (a 1% card now)? I just put in my application. Ha, this is a great story: First they told me that I withdrew my application. I said: No, I never did. Then they resubmitted it. Then after 1-2 weeks, they again told me that my application was "cancelled." Now, it is a 1% card? Such luck! I still have two Fleet cards (mine and my wife's) with 2% without balance carry-over (old terms). Now Take a guess when they will take that away, too?

Hi there, just found your website after seeing it mentioned at FatWallet.com. FYI, the buzz there is that FBB is downgrading their Reward Card to just a 1% cashback, down from their present 2% max, effective after your billing statement date in October. This significantly alters the attractiveness of this card. Thought you'd want to update your site accordingly after confirming this for yourself.

Add me to the list of people who have received the 5% back from Amazon on my eCard. A couple of months ago it appeared on my statement as "CARD REBATE (Other)". However, I just checked their website and was unable to find the link to show me the list of 5% back merchants, which used to be there on their old system. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. As for the idea of leaving a penny balance on your AMEX card to get the higher rebate level, you will quickly learn that you are not charged interest on the amount remaining, but on the average daily balance for the statement (and possibly for the previous statement as well). I am fairly sure that there is NO WAY to come out ahead by leaving some of the balance unpaid to get the higher rebate level.

It is interesting to read about all the cards cutting back on their rebates, etc. I know that they are losing money on the deadbeats who don't pay bills, but they make a fortune charging high interest to most cardusers. I guess they really don't want us "deadbeats" who insist on paying our bills promptly and in full. So, now Farm Bureau is joining Fleet, and they are both joining the rest of the universe. Maybe we should buy stock in some of these companies.

8/20/2002

RE;FARM BUREAU BANK. I talked to FB on the phone and was informed that around November 2002 they are reducing thier 2% rebate to 1%.Plan on cashing your existing points by Nov.

c2it - I heard Citibank credit cards are credited as purchases. See http://home.earthlink.net/~pgary/TravelFrame.html

I know this is off the subject somewhat but a few years ago I got a photo card from First USA. It did take a while to get the card complete with a photo of myself and my favorite entertainer! But I was quite pleased with the result and even though the card expired a few years ago I still carry it in my wallet as a nice conversation piece. My question is does anyone know of a Credit Card that STILL gives you an option to use a favorite personal photo? I will call First USA later today and see if they are still offering the card but if any of you know of any other Credit Photo Cards please let us know!

Subaru Rebate Card (3%) by Chase: $500 maximum, rebates expires in four year. So, a maximum of $ 2000 can be accumulated. Now there is a sign-up bonus of $25 and 0% interest rate for balance transfer for nine months. It is only for new car purchase and Subaru car repairs ar Subaru dealers, not for lease. Get on subaru.com or call Chase to find out more specific terms.

What are anyone's comments regarding the chase stockback card - 1% back from everywhere, up to 10% back from select merchants...

Regarding the First USA eCard program -- here's their list of merchants: I received a 5% rebate on an Amazon.com purchase with last month's statement, shown (as usual) as a FINANCE CHARGE CREDIT. Person I spoke with @ FUSA this morning wasn't aware of any changes in the program.

I just wanted to make clear that the Capital One TJ Maxx Visa card does not give a cash rebate, however it does give a full 5% reward when using the card at TJ Maxx, Marshalls and possibly a few other stores. It gives a 1% reward when using the card elsewhere. I believe the rewards are sent quarterly and can be used when shopping at TJ Maxx and Marshalls. Again I must point out that the grace period for the card is a FULL month which is very unusual among most credit cards.

Finally I wanted to thank the site owner for taking down the advertisement for the E.CARD from First USA. IT USED to be a decent credit card but no longer! I applaud your decision to remove the ad!

RE the American Express Cash Rebate card and other cards that may issue more benefit "in months in which your account carries a balance". I keep hearing everyone say they could pay the amt due less 1 cent, which may qualify as carrying a balance but aren't there minimum finance charges of like 50 cents? This would definitely offset any additional reward that could be paid.

Great site! Very helpful information. I noticed that some of the Canadian bank issued credit cards offer cash back rewards. My question is can an American obtain one of these cards? Or, does a person need to be a Canadian citizen? Also, if an American can obtain a Canadian issued card, are there conversion fees involved? Thanks!

chase stockback card: What does anyone think about this program? Looks to me that it's 1% back on all purchases, and up to 10% back from certain retailers.

Any suggestions or help?

I just called Bank One about the eCard, and I was told that the 5% discount program is still going on. I got the rebate on the latest statement.

I called First USA on 8/18/2002 about this. According to them, the card is no longer being actively marketed - that is, no one new can sign up for it. However, those already holding these cards will still receive the 5% rebate from participating merchants. I did receive the 5% rebate on my last on-line purchase at Amazon, in May 2002.

Please continue to the grapevine archive of this continuing Saga!